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Carolyn Kimberly's avatar

Vatican ll's New Theology is basically Protestantism.

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Fortis Esperitas's avatar

It's worse because Protestants, for

the most part have no clue about true worship, the unblooodied sacrifice, body, soul and divinity. So, they are innocent of offending the Lord in the same way Catholics are apt to do, especially the clergy.

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RosaryKnight's avatar

It is permeated with anti-supernatural Masonic principles. Protestants at least believe in all the miracles in the gospels, except the Eucharist.

"Corrupio optimi pessima est." The corruption of what is best becomes the worst. The Jews, once the Chosen People, became the worst by rejecting Christ. Now it's Modernist & Masonic (many of them homosexual) wolves masquerading as Catholic shepherds, leading over a billion V2 adherents into damnable error, immorality, & grave irreverence.

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Timber Wolf's avatar

You call these people wolves? You insult our furry friends.

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Juan de Avila's avatar

It is protestism promoted by masonic or masonically inspired clergy

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Natalie's avatar
2dEdited

I am a confessional Lutheran, and we absolutely believe, teach, and confess that the Lord's Supper is Christ's Body and Blood. (We also believe that it is joined with bread and wine, as a number of Church Fathers, including St. Paul, St. Augustine, and Irenaeus, teach.) If you polled confessional Lutherans, you would find almost perfect unanimity in belief in the Real Presence. And our pastors preach Christ crucified, not social programs. I am sorry that the new Pope seems to be moving in the direction of Francis.

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Carolyn Kimberly's avatar

It's sad that Lutherans believe they have the Real Presence because they don't. They don't have the priesthood. Their "pastors" have no power or Divine Authority to confect the Eucharist.

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Natalie's avatar

Obviously, I disagree with you.

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Mark's avatar

Lutheran doctrine is Consubstantiation. This is categorically not the same doctrine of Transubstantiation believed by Catholics. Search online for more. Or don't.

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Natalie's avatar

No, we actually don't believe in consubstantiation. The Lutheran Confessions call it a sacramental union, not consubstantiation, which keeps bread and Body and wine and Bread as separate things.

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fac's avatar

Whatever you believe in, it's wrong.

Come back home, to the Catholic Church. The doctrine is rock solid, even if we have been infiltrated with guys like you have in the Lutheran Church, and they teach falsehoods, not true doctrine. Understand Apostolic Succession. Learn true doctrine.

Your Church separated itself from the True Vine in 1517. You now belong to a dead branch.

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Natalie's avatar

As St. Paul makes completely clear, all who believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior are grafted into Him and are part of the true Church. Therefore, to say that I belong to a dead branch contradicts the Apostle Paul.

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fac's avatar

No. St. Paul was a Catholic, not an apostate. You can't be attached to the True Vine if you reject even the smallest part of what the Apostles taught was the Faith. You don't get to choose and select what parts you will believe and what you won't. You can't pick out one line from what St. Paul says, ignore other doctrine, and then say he would agree you are grafted onto the True Vine.

You're lying to yourself.

You should go read some of the early Church Fathers, for instance St. Ignatius of Antioch, third Bishop of Antioch, a disciple of St. John, who in about 108 A.D. wrote seven letters to various congregations as he was being taken to Rome to be thrown to the lions (which is how he died.) He was the first one to use the term "Catholic" which means, "Universal" in that all the various congregations who believed in Christ, in the cities led by bishops, such as the Ephesians, the Corinthians and so on, held one set of doctrines, one Faith, one set of beliefs. In those letters you will see additional information as what the early followers of Christ believed and taught. And what they believed and taught corresponds not to the doctrine taught by Martin Luther, but the doctrine taught by the Catholic Church.

Don't stay in the Lutheran religion. As I said before, it is cut off from the True Vine.

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Fortis Esperitas's avatar

Natalie, I am very happy to hear that.

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Timber Wolf's avatar

The only problem that Lutherans have is they have no Apostolic Mandate, and their ordinations are not valid. Technically, Lutherans do not believe in Transubstantiation, the Scholastic term which refers to the fact that, after the Epiclesis and Consecration, Our Lord is actually present under the appearances of Bread and Wine. Lutherans believe in Transignification, the notion that Our Lord is concurrent with actual bread and wine.

I have never seen Our Lord reserved in a Tabernacle in any Protestant Church.

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Natalie's avatar

The Elements are not reserved in my church because we are following the Lord's command to "Take and eat" and "Drink ye all of it." The blessings of the Eucharist are in the eating and drinking. Everything that is consecrated is consumed. And we always partake of both the Body and Blood of Christ.

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Timber Wolf's avatar

That is because Lutherans do not believe in Transubstantiation, as I said earlier. Consequently, a Lutheran Church is an Abomination of Desolation, where Our Lord is not present, not even in the manner He was present in the Jewish Temple in the Old Covenant. When a Protestant visits his church, he is greeted by a Miserable Table, and the President's Chair. The Minister is not a priest like Melchizadek forever, with an indelible mark, but just the first among the Congregation. When A Catholic visits his church he is greeted by the Sanctuary Lamp and the Tabernacle veil, behind which his God dwells in silence.

Protestants live in Spiritual Poverty, bereft of Apostolic Tradition and the Holy Ghost. They are imprisoned by Luthers four famous Solos: Solo Scriptura, which denies Tradition, Solo Deus, which denies the Communion of Saints, Sola Fide, which denies that we work out our salvation in Fear and Trembling, and Solo Gratia, which denies the efficacy of prayer.

Do read the Catechism of the Council of Trent. Do look at the real history of the Protestant Reformation.

(That is not to say the Catholic side, so far as Holy Charity and the vatican was concerned, was any better, but that is a long story for another day.)

In the Holy Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

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Timber Wolf's avatar

Martin Luther would disagree. He would have blanched at Vatican II.

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sanctum officium's avatar

LIberal Protestantism. Seems like part of the orthodox Catholic complaint on the new mass actually aligns with consevative Evangelical emphasis on the need for atonement.

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Fortis Esperitas's avatar

Yes, a RSCJ nun, I once knew spoke about the "miracle" of the loaves and fishes as a miracle of community. In essence, country prople always bring a little something extra with them when on the road and the the "miracle" was that they opened up their tightly shut satchels and began to share with each other. Jesus is just a facilitator. It's odd though, that these country people all had the same exact food at the same exact time.

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Chris Jackson's avatar

This is an old modernist trope to suck anything miraculous out of the story. Even Father Groeschel exposed it on EWTN decades ago. Then Francis had the audacity to repeat it and now Leo. Sick. Do they believe in the God of the Gospels? Or the modernist Jesus whose miracles are all explained away? Why even believe in such a pathetic figure?

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fac's avatar
2dEdited

"Why even believe in such a pathetic figure?"

Good point. Why would anyone die a martyr's death for a guy who just got people to share their lunch a couple of times?

I read a book by Dr. Brant Pitre, Biiblical Scholar at the Augustine Institute (a little irony there with the Pope being Augustinian), called the "Biblical Roots of the Eucharist." It blew me away. In it Dr. Pitre connects the Last Supper and what Jesus was doing there, with the Show Bread of the Temple sacrifice, the role of the Levitical priesthood, the Passover meal, the Manna in the desert (also known as the Bread of Angels), the sacrifice of Calvary, and the Mass. With all that background you can clearly see what the Gospel writers were saying to the Jewish people of the 1st Century to get them to see that Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah, and all the puzzle pieces fall into place for us as to the meaning of the Eucharist. It's phenomenal.

Dr. Pitre addresses this issue about the "miracle of sharing" vs. the "miracle of multiplication" in the feeding of the 5,000 in a video on YouTube and explains why it is false view. (Look for a video called "Feeding the 5,000: A "Miracle of Sharing?" on YouTube on the Catholic Productions channel.)

In the video Dr. Pitre explains the text actually implies (as we as Catholics already know) that it was a miracle of multiplication because the people said, "Is this not the prophet who is to come into the world?" which meant, not just any prophet, but the prophet who would be like Moses, and provide bread in the dessert.

The "sharing" interpretation came from a rationalist Protestant named Hienrich Paulus in the 18th Century. Rationalism is the philosophical view that says all we can know is what reason tells us, and denies such things as miracles, denies "the super-natural." To a rationalist there are no such things as miracles.

The Modernists who have taken over our Church are rationalists through and through. They do not believe in miracles. They do not believe in the super-natural. And their teachings directly contradict the Catechism of the Catholic Church which explicitly cites miracles Jesus performed, including the multiplication of the loaves and fishes.

It's one thing for a wacky Catholic theologian to pick up this "sharing" interpretation and argue for it, but it is a whole nother thing for the Pope himself to preach this as the meaning of this Gospel to Catholics. It's heresy, sorry to say.

I'm not surprised. I knew what he was the minute I heard he was an American from Chicago. Having lived here all my life I know what kind of cleric in Chicago goes up the ladder in the Church, and what kind gets stalled and sidelined. It's sad, but those who initially were so hopeful about him are going to see their hope fading away as time goes on.

He's only been Pope for six weeks and already he's tipping his hand.

Sad. Very sad.

Other than that, I highly recommend Dr. Pitre's books and videos. He really is superb.

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Evangeline's avatar

As you said Chris, modernists are horizontally oriented. They are materialists, nothing salvivic or supernatural for them! Its all the here and now, social work by God and his helpers. Honestly my impression is their determination to bring Christ down from His cross. They dont want him up there, as Protestants also don't.

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William Murphy's avatar

Thanks very much, Chris. I celebrated Corpus Christi twice in 2025 - on Thurs 19th June in Warsaw and on Sunday 22nd in England. The Warsaw church hosts Masses in Polish, Spanish and English.

http://warsawcatholics.pl/

One Polish Mass was finishing when I arrived, with a procession around the four altars erected in the church grounds. Communion at the English Mass was preceded by an announcement that Communion was only for baptised Catholics in a state of grace, but non Catholics were most welcome to come forward for a blessing.

As someone observed decades ago, there is a lot of death in a church. The sophisticated leaders and theologians may have apostatised decades ago, while the true faith survives at the margins.

But how much longer can even Poland hold out if the Vatican has quietly rotted away?

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fac's avatar
2dEdited

Poland was consecrated to Our Lady, declaring her to be Queen of Poland forever, by King John II Casmir in 1656 after the miraculous defeat of the Protestant Swedish forces which invaded Poland in 1655, threatening it's very survival, by a small group of defenders at the monastery of Jasna Gora in Czestochowa that housed the sacred icon of Our Lady of Czestochowa.

The icon of Our Lady of Czestochowa is said to have been "written" by St. Luke on a wooden panel taken from the table used by the Holy Family in their home.

In 1717 the miraculous image of Our Lady of Czestochowa was crowned with papal crowns, the first such coronation outside Rome. In 1764 the Polish Parliament passed laws which expressly named Our Lady of Częstochowa the Queen of Poland. The people honor Our Lady as their Queen to this very day. In fact, in Poland, at the very end of the Litany of Loreto (the Litany of Our Blessed Virgin Mary) they add the title, "Queen of Poland...pray for us." Could this consecration and honoring of her queenship be the reason they have remained a very solid Catholic country?

The story of the siege of Jasna Gora and victory by the Poles in 1655, is a remarkable and fascinating one, including miraculous things that happened, such as canon balls shot by the Swedes being deflected back on them, and the Swedes reporting seeing the figure of a woman walking along the top of the outer walls of the monastery (which they thought was a witch). If you are interested in reading a contemporaneous account by a priest who was at that monastery during that siege, you can find it at https://www.pliniocorreadeoliveira.info/UK_1972_Czestochowa_siege.htm

You seek her protection in a serious way, from your heart, and she will indeed shield you.

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Mike Connor's avatar

Multiplication of the loaves and fishes was just sharing?

Healing the paralytic, telling him to pick up his mat and walk was just solving his apathy?

This is heresy! Why is the Pope trying to revise the Scriptural descriptions of these miracles?

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Chris Jackson's avatar

Because he is a disciple of modernism most likely.

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Juan de Avila's avatar

Someone who is not validly elected does not benefit from Christ’s prayer for the pope when he said in Luke 22:32 But I have pleaded in prayer for you, Simon, that your faith should not fail. So when you have repented and turned to me again, strengthen your brothers.

https://www.fromrome.info/2025/05/09/cardinal-prevost-is-an-anti-pope-his-election-is-invalidated-by-paul-iv/

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Sonia's avatar

Prevost used a virtue signal about greed to mock Christ. The heretic proclaims a "sign...Jesus' gesture" to pour poison on Corpus Christi. The influencers will ignore that Prevost used Scripture (the miracle of the multiplication) to undo Scripture - John VI. Pretending reality (in this case the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord) is just a sign is what V2 does. Pius X warned that a modernist will give you a little Tradition in order to take away Tradition. FromRome noticed that Prevost openly refused transubstantiation, using the words 'transforms'.

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Juan de Avila's avatar

Well said Sonia.

https://www.fromrome.info/2025/06/23/cardinal-prevost-espouses-heresy-of-magical-transformation-on-feast-of-corpus-christi/

I recommend everyone to look into the possibility that the election of Prevost may have been invalid.

https://www.fromrome.info/2025/06/12/catholics-of-rome-denounce-prevost-as-an-anti-pope/

https://www.fromrome.info/2025/05/09/cardinal-prevost-is-an-anti-pope-his-election-is-invalidated-by-paul-iv/

Since the cardinals failed in their duty to elect a Catholic pope, according to the Pope Nicolas II’s Bull In Nome Domine, in cases where the election is not pure, sincere and free, the faithful of Rome have the right to assemble and elect a Catholic pope.

https://www.fromrome.info/2025/06/11/pope-nicholas-iii-infallibly-taught-that-faithful-can-elect-a-catholic-pope/

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Sonia's avatar

The heretic says of his false-Christ, "who transforms bread into himself in order to transform us into himself." There is no transubstantiation for this grinning fraud.

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Evangeline's avatar

We have a right to wonder since Bergoglio was an obvious heretic and appointed too many electors for the conclave according to canon law.

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Men's Media Network's avatar

Here’s what a proper pre-1962 Solemnity of Corpus Christi Mass looks like on 6/22/2025. The Vatican can’t even come close to this today. (Procession in to church starts 5 minutes in)…

https://www.youtube.com/live/5zayM9t3zKA?si=UmJgTCze4NqqueVJ

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Pinksy's avatar

Actually, our churches observed silence.

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Roger Sterling's avatar

God will not be mocked. These foolish, evil clerics… don’t they realize that they are playing with their immortal souls? They will be held to account on judgement day.

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Patrick O'Brien's avatar

"There is no call to repentance. No reference to mortal sin." Do they realize that they are playing with their immortal souls? Why bother? Everyone goes to Heaven.

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Evangeline's avatar

Great analysis. Many times, when faithful Catholics spoke about Francis, they described an intuitive, visceral reaction to him. I had no such reaction to Francis, just a growing awareness ending with total rejection around month three (when he refused to kneel for the Blessed Sacrament).

I feel the same about Leo except, he is far more believable than Francis, and will indoctrinate far more people into false Catholicism, for the good reasons you state. People who dont know the Baltimore cathechism at all will think this babble is it. I would consider Leo a much more insidious figure. Hes put on some of the accoutrements. Whether he is using them out of sincerity is unknown but is inconsistent with his actions. I dont pay the slightest attention to what nonsense he babbles. He appoints all the wrong people and is banning the TLM actively. He's Francis with a good sheep suit.

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Timber Wolf's avatar

I have said it a million times. The Traditional Latin Mass is a Propitiatory Sacrifice, an Eternal, Infinite Oblation to God the Father. The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet is a Happy Meal. The Multiplication of the Loaves and Fishes is a perfect Metaphor for the "New Mass". Pope Provost has outdone himself this time.

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Evangeline's avatar

I agree completely.

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Mike Rizzio's avatar

When Saint Pio of Pietrelcina uttered the words, "The earth could exist more easily without the sun than without the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass" he meant it.

No Holy Mass no Holy Eucharist. No Holy Eucharist, no life on earth.

That is why the Holy Sacrifice and worthy reception are so critical.

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Dr Phillip Chalmers's avatar

Remind yourself. What did God tell his people to do while they were slaves of the Egyptians and were about to be freed to go to the Promised Land.

Hint: Paschal Lamb / Blood on lintel of door / fully consume one lamb per household -> Angel of death passed over and spared the first-born.

The Mass is much more complex and deeper than the shallow description given above.

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Mary Suddath's avatar

Eucharistic is misspelled.

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Chris Jackson's avatar

Where?

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Mary Suddath's avatar

I’m not sure what it’s called but in tthe picture that you showed that tells about the article.

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Mary Suddath's avatar

It says Eucharstic

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Chris Jackson's avatar

OH! I see. That was EWTN’s picture. 😅

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