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Michael E. Pigg's avatar

I appreciate this post. It seems like too many good Catholics get caught up in the Salza and Sisco web of canonical/positive law fanaticism and fail to see that Canon Law is for ORDINARY TIMES. With that said, there are certain truths in Canon Law that are rooted in Divine Law and can never be cast aside; no, those truths remain always. I am sure we can all agree that how a bishop retains jurisdiction, in a way that satisfies the note of Apostolicity, has not been given to us via Divine Law, nor has the Church clearly and officially taught us on this topic. We have had many theologians ponder this issue and have given their opinions, but nothing binding. All we are told to absolutely believe is that Christ is with us always and the visibility of the Church must remain until the end of time, along with being one, holy, catholic, and one can also argue Roman. When it comes to a Church that teaches error in faith and morals, especially when it conflicts with previously defined teachings, we know that is a show-stopper and a clear note/sign that we are dealing with something not from God. The same definitive conclusion can not be said when it comes to the question of jurisdiction and Apostolicity, because this is more of an area that is speculative and open for debate, as long as true bishops exist, which they do.

Chris Jackson has laid out a reasonable position on this and there are other positions that have been offered. I appreciate his willingness to step outside the Catholic Inc. paradigm and treat this like the crisis it truly is.

The SV position has way too many points in its favor to ignore and treat as a non-starter.

-Scripture clearly teaches a small and persecuted Church in the final days.

-Scripture, nor any Church teaching speaks of the Church persecuting Herself, or the head attacking the body.

-Many theologians point to these Scripture passages and discuss a falling away from the faith by a worldly and adulterous Rome.

-There are prophecies (approved and unapproved) that speak of the same falling away and of the Church being persecuted by the world.

-There is nothing in Scripture, Fathers of the Church, or Magisterium that teaches the Catholic Church/True Pope will teach error in faith and morals and/or persecute Herself is some sick or sadomasochist split personality kind of way. Christ tells us that a house divided cannot stand, thus the Catholic Church is ONE and cannot be divided into some Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde way like the R&R are constantly trying to ram down our throats.

-If you go/stay SV and are wrong, assuming then the Novus Ordo is the truth faith, then you are judged by the standards of the Novus Ordo, which pretty much means everyone is a winner and gets a trophy, no fear, no justice, just mercy. If you go/stay Novus Ordo, and that includes the R&R (SSPX, FSSP, etc.), and are wrong, then you are judged by the true Catholic Church, which means "small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.", and that one is to work out their salvation in fear and trembling.

I am not much of a betting man, but for this, my wager is placed on the SV position. I like my odds much better that way.

Pax et bonum +

David Miller's avatar

The topic of episcopal gifts is difficult. Even more difficult is the next topic: how can a true pope take office? and will such a pope be recognized? As I understand it, all cardinals are conciliar cardinals, and virtually all bishops are conciliar bishops.

Ann Barnhardt's vision is a layman being elected, dissolving the college, and starting fresh with a new group of 12.

Another problem, or perhaps the real, root problem, is the death of metaphysics. Language is regarded as a tool for wielding power; not for discovering truth. If another Pius X came to power, people wouldn't understand him to be restoring goodness, truth, and beauty, but rather as merely imposing his own new magisterium, just like his immediate predecessors.

I believe restoration requires a cataclysm: some terrible events that will usher in a new age. Or the second coming.

The problem with the Cassiacum Thesis and theories of episcopal governance and my ideas on the restoration is that they sound much more fanciful than just acknowledging what the Church has become.

What is absolutely clear to me is that the modern church is incompatible with my understanding of ecclesiology. I do not want any part of the new church. I am not at all clear on the path ahead.

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